It's interesting: Part of this law advocates sending children presently attending failing schools to another school of their choice. Problem usually is that: #1, the school of choice isn't much better than the school the students came from, and #2, giving students say about $2500.00 to go to a private school doesn't get you into the likes of a University of Chicago Lab School--it would PERHAPS only be enough to go to the neighborhood mom/pop run private school, and in my neck of the woods, that ain't saying much for school choice.

What people aren't addressing are the issues of race and class that perpetuate these inequities in the first place. It's up to minorities to take matters into their own hands and DEMAND equitable, quality education. Until that is done, we will plod along biting at the hand that is determined to only give us scraps.

In regards to-No Child Left Behind and School Vouchers for parents to send their children to other schools.

I am an educator of 18 years in the public schools. I have a B.S degree in Industrial Technology in Education and a B.S. degree in Health Education. (I am currently working on my first Masters program.) I am pretty offended by people who think that minorities need only more money for education to rise up out of the life style they CHOOSE to live.

Money and Education, Money and Education, Money and Education. Well Illinois voted on that issue several years ago with the "YES" vote on legalized gambling with the Lottery. Well, What became of the money that was supposed to go to the educational institutions of this great state (and subsequent other states)???? Less that one one-hundredth of one percent of the winnings make it's way to the schools. Where then does the money go??? To the mobsters running the lottery and all the rest of the gambling establishments.

Taking hard earned money from the naive who think that the quick rich skeemes will fall their way. Not so say the statistics. The money spent by the lower class to win the lottery and the money going back into that same lower class by comparison is like the analogy, (as far as the east is from the west). Thus making the poor a great deal poorer while again the mobsters get fatter and more wealthy.

What else does this do? Increases crime and violence and then the cycle repeats. There was a resent story on the local Chicago television news and in all the local newspapers in regards to the MIS-MANAGEMENT of taxpayers funds by the Chicago Board of Education. Money being laundered or extorted by the (MINORITY) management. Appalling school conditions, no reinnovations started with the moneys allotted.

Recent news about the Trucking scam in Chicago also, $40,000,000 again more mismanagement of funds for purposes other than what they were delagated for. Money and Education, Money and Education, again. Supposed well educated people (some minorities) corrupted by Money and Power. Another Example schools passing referendums to increase taxes and then mismanaging the moneys acquired from those honestly believing their hard earned dollars will be wisely spent. Only to see it spent on programs that promote promiscuity with no self-respect or self-dignity.

"Hey every child is sexually active so why not give the children what THEY WANT. They are going to do it anyway." What a deception. What insane thinking. Parents are supposed to teach their children to do right, to teach self-control, to understand that their children's adolescent hormones are not to be just given into without thought of consequence but restrained until the mind, heart, soul and emotions are on a higher plane than "If I FEEL like doing something my feelings must be right so it's O. K. to act them out." Just "OBEY your Thirst" or "JUST DO IT" or "I want it NOW" or any of those other social engineered slogans that allow a young mind to do what ever FEELS good to them.

No restraint, no holding back for more thought, no time for a waited growth period for maturity, more knowledge, more problem solving skills to be developed. No waiting for sensibility, for analysis of situations, no discernment of whether or not something might be WRONG. And what, parents you can't tell your children that they are WRONG. That is just not politically correct. Just think of that novelty "Parents telling their own children what is RIGHT and WRONG." Oh my, Why that might be..., no that IS... abuse.

For parents to try and direct thier own children in a way that is contrary to their own children's FEELINGS of desire, pleasure or wants. (The last few statements were sarcastic). I am a parent, first to my children. I should take the responibility to TRAIN my children to do what is morally, ethically, and spiritually RIGHT and consequently I will be at odds with my children's feelings of want, pleasure, desire. Society declares that unbridled emotioins leads that society headlong into destruction.

Saying YES to our children when we should be saying NO is not loving them nor is it protecting them from harm, but it is encouraging them and enabling them to welcome destruction and embrace behaviors that will inevitably KILL them. i.e. Sexually transmitted diseases, drug addiction, alcohol abuse, yes, unwanted pregnancies, more abortions, more mental illness, more suicide, more violent behaviors. Look closely at the statistics from 1940-2004 and do a comparative diagnosis.

If you are honest with yourself, you might just see that education alone with more money will not change the negative destructive behavior of the youth of America. Telling a twelve year old BOY how to properly use a condom, and then giving him a box so he could go PRACTISE on one of many young girls is not my idea of sane,logical and right thinking. Teaching him that he is a moral and spiritual individual with a worth far greater that just a dog (dogs just have sexual intercourse with nothing else).

That he or she for that matter, has the ability to make good and proper choises that will not be harmful to them or to anyone elses future. That they won't have to worry about what their future would be like if only they didn't get pregnant, or that now I'll have herpes for the rest of my life, or that when a girl hears a baby crying at a grocery store she feels like dying because that could have been the baby she aborted. All these are not fear based, but these are Real Life senarios, with real life consequences, and real life circumstances which could be avoided or prevented if people cared enough to tell the truth and be courageous enough to live it. Thanks for your time.

I do not want to major in education nor do I want to be certified. I have a master's degree in a content area (intellectual history). Why can't I work in the public schools? Their loss!

I live in San Antonio, Texas. I'm an attorney, and I have two daughters in grade school ages 8 and 10. My husband and I are very involved in their education, and work with them every night. I vehemently disagree with standarized multiple choice tests to determine the knowledge base of children, and think the current approach competely misses the point of learning through teaching. I recently read that a music major has a much better chance of being accepted into medical school as compared to a biochemistry major. Standarized multiple choice tests do nothing to spark our children, the teachers are overwhelmed and have too many children in their classrooms. Administrative officials in the school districts make 3 figure incomes while the districts complain there is not enough money to spend on salaries or resources. Governor Perry recently addressed a meeting of teachers and school adminstrator and received only laughs when it was suggested that the state would match funds raised by the school districts for teacher incentives. NCLB is not the answer.

The reality of no child left behind is that it creates a tremendous drain of resources away from the students and into the hands of bureaucrats and consultants. Every school districts diverts resources into building all kinds of testing mechanisms to insure that students in the district are going to score higher on the state tests. The end result is that teachers lose valuable classroom teaching time to administer the tests, and students learn to hate tests because they are forced to take so many of them throughout the school year. Yet schools pay little attention to figuring out strategies to integrate the school more intemately with the community. I teach in a low ses school district in San Antonio, Texas and I have watched and participated in this process for the last 7 years. Our students already suffer from low self esteem, the problem is not solved by making them take more tests on which they can get low scores, or by making them take a high stakes test in order to graduate from high school. When you start grading schools and school district based on student performance on statewide tests, the bureaucrats are very adept at designing all kinds of cya(cover your ass) programs and policies, so that when the hammer falls it falls on someone else lower down in the organization. We all know what rolls down hill and currently there is so much of it cascading down to the classroom that a majority of the teachers and students are becoming very frustrated. The resulting negative attitudes act as a roadblock to learning.

NCLB is chocking our schools, Teachers are being more and more at fault for what the parents should be also involved in. This idea of standardizing, sytemlizing, and teaching by recipe is creating a "faast food" approach to our nations schools. It treats teachers like unskilled minimum wage workers and to follow instruction with out creating imagination. Children are not hamburgers and schools are not fast food restaurants.

NCLB and its Affects on One School Community

In July of 2003 a neighborhood newspaper interpreted the Minnesota State Education Departments report or listing titled "Preliminary Projection of Schools Not Making Adequately Yearly Progress. In an article published in the SouthWest Journal, a journalist, based on how he interpreted this MDE list, mislabeled our school "the worst performing school in the State of Minnesota". This action was the beginning of 6 months of inadequate reporting, labeling and state department perceived "support" for our school.

Here is the first example: After many phone calls trying to clarify the MDE report, the Minneapolis Public Schools district Research and Development office was able to understand and confer that our school was not a year three, but on a year two AYP status when in effect we had not been notified or formally given a year one status. This confusion went on for three months when our school was officially cited as being a year two AYP School which is in phase one. The previous year we were not told we were being watched and or that we were a year one. Because the MDE was trying to interpret the law and catch up to how it was going to interpret NCLB, our school was caught in a time zone. "We simply did not have enough time, funding or personnel to complete all the tasks that had to be done so quickly to implement this law, said a state department representative. We were in a transition time for implementation of the NCLB."

Had the federal funding been available to the MDE to fully examine how to implement this law in an orderly and timely fashion, perhaps our school could have avoided so many demoralizing experiences. Many of which came from trying to explain to our children, parents, surrounding neighbors and even our district administrators why our school was mentioned in the paper as "failing". The word failing was not even supposed to be a descriptor of a school with this law and yet here it was being stated, inferred and printed. Perhaps the MDE could then have given us sufficient advice on what the leading indicators were going to be. Perhaps MDE could have assisted the public in understanding the successes of schools and the areas for continued improvement rather than the emphasis being pointed at how a whole school was not making a years progress using statistically different groups of third and fifth grade children and their single test results. Our school's success and or "failure" were basically then measured on the results of forty children at two grades using the indicators as determined by the MDE.

Background: Half of our students were new in those grades the September prior to the test, not to mention that many of our students are native Spanish speakers. The truth is staff and involved parents know there is a variety of student needs that have to be met and that we had to get better at helping them learn within the 1070 hours they are in residence at our building. The whole school was not "failing," but we were made to feel as such. Highly involved parents called and said, " My friends are asking why I am sending my child to the school, when they read it is so bad. What do I tell them?" This question was asked over and over again in early fall of 2003.

We know that over the last two years the students we were servicing were changing. We planned at length detailed strategies to improve upon our instruction with all students. We knew we would continue to get different leveled as well as new students all year long. We identified our Black students our ESL Spanish students, our highly mobile students and those students new to the school as the groups to focus on. We applied for a grant under NCLB called Comprehensive School Reform with MDE and were awarded it. I mention this because our official coach assigned to us from MDE was not aware of the connection between CSR and NCLB. This grant took extensive review of data, information such as surveys and other student work as well as focus groups and multiple meetings with parents, staff and business partners. We used a comprehensive improvement planning process to formulate our request. The funding is geared at improving our capacity to service our changing demographics. We feel fortunate to have such a large amount of professional development dollars to support our need for change. The AYP status dollars in comparison are nominal. ($20,000 for one year under AYP versus $90,000 per year for CSR over three years.)

Under the NCLB law, part of the Minnesota Department of Education (MDE) responsibility is to establish a statewide system of intensive and sustained support and improvement for schools receiving Accountability funds. At this time, those systems of "support" feel punitive and shaming, while the improvement processes are weaker than what systems our school district had already established. One positive piece was that if you completed your School Improvement Plan as requested, within the designated, compressed timeline, your school could potentially have access as stated above, to $20,000 in funds to support instructional change.

Other MDE "support" we were to receive with this new AYP status, started very late in October. The mandatory MDE sessions of support began the last week in October, extending into November, December and January. A small MDE team started gathering information on the whole school in mid November. Their work took another few days. Depending on the group member's competency, this experience was somewhat helpful, very stressful and ended with a summary report that came on the 15th of December. The only redeeming part of the MDE school improvement planning process was that it repeated some of the strategies that we had already used the year before and we knew were essential for good planning and improvement. The process once again helped us to focus on gathered information, data and statistics, to help formulate goals for improvement and strategies needed to get there. The unfortunate part was the shortened time line to involve all the necessary people. In the past we included many parents, using several different means, such as surveys and phone calls to obtain input and feedback to reflect, review, evaluate and agree upon strategies that could help meet student needs. Meanwhile the MDE "support" that was given was again limited and not timely. We were continuously reminded of the "consequences and punishments" if we did not get better per the AYP criteria. Shaming and blaming does not work in changing behaviors and yet we are shamed by the interpretation of a State list, State Report Card, a newspaper article and comments that continually use negative descriptors such as "Worst" or failing. More disappointing has been this most recent required documentation under the School Improvement Planning process that was so rushed.

Today's cold is a perfect example of how difficult it will be to get off of the AYP status for the indicator called participation. If a bus show's up 20 minutes late, or a parent or student has a crisis or illness on any test date, we can ask the State for exemptions but many of them will not be granted. One of our 3rd grade students is in Vietnam visiting aging and ill relatives. The family has not returned to Viet Nam since their immigration. We cannot tell them to stay home and not make the trip that they have planned because of a test. More recently a newly immigrated student contracted chicken pox. Because he did not have a doctor's excuse we cannot get him exempted from the test that he just missed. Many new immigrants do not understand the protocols for having to go to a clinic, or hospital to document an illness and are even fearful of doing so.

We need a system that is truly supportive not punitive. We applaud the systems that are being used for school improvement planning. We embrace the need for making changes to better meet students where they are performing and improve upon their capacity. Within the last few months this law has changed us. We have been

Distracted by the negative publicity

Demoralized by the content of individual statements and publications

Deflated by the amount of energy being placed into a hurried system

Distressed by the label placed on a whole school which by definition includes,

staff, families, community and of course the children:

Disappointed that our families have to struggle with questioning what they read

about the unsuccessful student performance on a test

Derailed from fully focusing on our comprehensive plans from last winter and

Spring

Dejected that our government has misused test results

Discouraged that millions are being spent on only one way to measure a schools

Success

Each day we struggle to move each child ahead. This law only further emphasizes a system that measures by a test that uses in essence a Bell shaped curve, thus leaving some children below a cut off point, some in the middle and some on either end. Doesn't this method of calculating test results leave many children "behind"? In truth the NCLB as a piece of National legislation, is not making itself accountable to its own belief. It limits the choices many poorer parents may have, it lessens the freedom of States and communities, discourages proven educational methods and opens up the door for creating charter schools which appear to have little systems of accountability to the government. American public school systems are being dismantled as we speak. The infrastructure depends on effective funding and supports. We must assist those children others will push away because of their; lack of performance on one end of a Bell curve, low English language skills, citizenship skills, limited rates of learning, housing opportunities, or special education concerns.

Improving the infrastructure of schools not dismantling them will strengthen communities. Thank you for taking the time to read this testimonial.

Respectfully submitted by Principal Jean M. Neuman

Is it just me, but hasn't the statement "this is not part of a vast right wing conspiracy" become a mantra for administration officials such as Undersecretary Hickock reiterated in the debate. Any tyrant will tell you that the easiest way to rise to and secure power other than overwhelming military oppression is to degrade the citizens' ability to think and reason for themselves. A good education is the first line of defense in securing and maintaining the blessings of liberty to ourselves and posterity. Maybe that's why this Nation's founders emphasied the neccessity of education. If the Constitution of the United States in any way needs amending, then the amendment should be such that every child with-in our national borders and beyond be garaunteed the means by which they are conveyed to a substantial basis the 4r's abilities of reading, writing, arithmetic and reason. An amendment garaunteeing the best of all possible public educations!

No doubt that the concept of NCLB is a noble goal worthy of pursuit, but the present means of implementation amount to little more than determining citizenship on the blueness of one's eyes or the blondness of one's hair or how well one marches with a shovel whether or nor one knows how to use a shovel.

There is the lame argument against educating the children that prior to 1850 there were no public schools. Prior to 1850 we had the best of Public schools! Schools established, constructed and staffed by communities, instead of obese bureaucrats, for the benifit of the communities children. Communities that fully interacted with the teachers they hired and entrusuted the futures of thier children and thier children's children in. Teachers who were fully engaged in and accountable to the community. Teachers with rights of the parents, as teachers are in essence the parents of new generations of citizens.

One of the most tragic wounds of segregation this nation suffers is the segregation of students by grade level in the elementary stages. The obvious advantages that the old multi-grade one room schoolhouse provided the students are the oppurtunities to preview the knowledge to be studied and review the inforamtion learned. How could a child not learn at least something beneficial from such an exposure to knowledge?

Of course, an excellent cummunity based public where-in every child is enabled with the abilities of self-determination may be held as part of some vast left-wing conspiracy, but it's time the right-wing start flapping its feathers instead of just flapping its beak. If tax cuts are so essential for the economic health of this nation, instead fogie old scrooges who can't take it with them, by all means give the tax cuts and incentives to parents and persons who actively engage in the education of our nations children, our nation's future.

I have researched the pros and cons about the voucher program and "No child left behind" as well as read the posts on this site. It surprises me how anyone would disagree with the voucher system. The public schools are a monopoly, no competition, no need to improve. The vouchers will not affect that many public schools in the beginning, unless they are succesful, and if they are successful, why would ANYONE disagree with the system?? The public school system in America is NOT WORKING, most school administrators blame the parents, however with class sizes at 35 plus students per teacher how can that be a cohesive classroom setting? I urge each and every one of you that oppose the voucher system to visit a public school one day and watch a teacher try to keep the attention of 30 plus students! What happens is the teacher recommends any student they cannot hold the attention of be analyzed by a doctor for ADHD... which is another subject of it's own! The teachers are overworked, the kids are under noticed in these classroom settings. Everyone knows there are problems in the public school system, why not welcome a pilot program to see how it works. If there becomes a need for less teachers then time to move into a new profession like so many others have had to due to our ever changing world! As it is teachers whine because they are "paid so little" for working 9 months out of the year, having a christmas vacation that is usually 2 weeks, spring vacation, oh and lets not forget every holiday off. It's time to change the system, all other programs to date have not worked! The next time a teacher says they don't support vouchers, ask them if they have children. If they do, ask them if their child goes to public school? More then likely their children are in private schools as is the school administrators! As for the price of private schools, no the money will not get a child into a high class university (we are talking about school age children here, not young adults) but it will give parents the freedom to send their child to the school they feel is best for their children! What is so wrong with that?

In response to a concerned parent. As your message clearly states there is a need for fundemental change in the classroom. But instead of having an education system based upon the instability of stock market profitability, wouldn't our tax dollars be better spent on providing all our children with an abundance of excellently trained teachers providing a common-ground common-sense based education for all the nations children. An education lending more to unifying the nation rather than leading to social divisions based upon wealth and the affordability of a good education. Just because a voucher may help get your child into a better school doesn't help the children who are left behind because thier parents can not afford the option. Vouchers leave children behind!

When all the parents of this nation unify and demand that they get thier moneys worth, we will have better schools. We own them in the first place! The persons there-in are on our payroll! They are accountable to us. But until we demand and exercise that accountability and assume our resposibilities as trustees of posterity, we've got what we got.

I thought Mr. Karp addressed the real issue - which Dr. Hickock dodged ("I thought we were here to discuss NCLB") - there is no evidence that high stakes testing scientifically improves learning. Isn't there evidence that household income directly relates to success in learning? the real issue is this Asministration's false claim to be pro-education, without establishing a tax policy that will allow low income households to retain more of their earnings. This really is a way to pronounce public education as 'needs improvement' (a/k/a failing), using a "scientific measure" so as to pave the way for privatization through vouchers. The money is going to come out of local tax payers and be diverted to private 'education institutions'.

A primary fallacy negating the value of this debate:

Schools have a strong impact on academic performance.

Schools don't matter nearly as much as culture and peer groups. My own statistics-based analysis - I'm not an academic - using TIMSS, shows that gender divided cultures, as assessed by Hoffstedder's cultural comparisons, shows that masculine cultures, where men control and decide matters of public importance, as opposed to an egalitarian society, have a very strong negative correlation with academic performance. Additionally. Other researchers have shown that peers, starting from the 6th grade onward, strongly influence academic involvement.

To blame schools and teachers for the problem, in a effort to change the academic environment, will have little positive effect, although the standard recommended changes will positively influence education, since the problem is not with schools.

I believe the problem with our public education system lies in the funding. No, I'm not proposing throwing more money at schools. I am proposing making the funding equitable across the system. Currently, schools are funded largely by property taxation. Obviously this means schools in more affluent areas will receive more money and those in less affluent locales will receive less. This translates to the more affluent schools having better facilities, technology, resources, and attracting better teachers. How can we call this a public education system, when the schools offer such an unequal experience to our young people ? Balance the funding, make the education ALL our children receive be of the same quality, and I think we will see things improve.

As for vouchers, they only serve to undermine the public school system. Abandoning the system does not improve it. Additionally, they provide for tax-dollar support of religious institutions, which goes against the concept of separation of church and state. AND, it is patently unfair to give what amounts to a refund to people who pull their kids out of public schools -- how about a refund for people who don't have school-age children at all ?

The main problem with schools is that kids have to go to school in areas where the trouble making kids take up all the teachers' time. Plus, I know people who work or worked as a teacher and they say a good teacher is one who can keep the kids quiet, even if their grades are terrible. School vouchers would have provided kids to get the schools with more funding, right now the government has to make sure that kids are proporional in every district, not that they're getting a good education. Plus, with parents using the vouchers like money, they will want to make sure they get their money's worth. Whenever kids become disruptive, their parents will be responsible for making sure the kid shapes up, if not, other parents will take their children out since they are paying for that education. Hence, only the school that strives to make sure all their students are getting all the tools they need in education to use in the real world, they will stay in business.

Let's get serious about education.

We ask the nation's schools to compete without equal resources nationally, ie salaries for teachers.

America needs to allocate at least as much money to education as it does to prisons.

you can probably get a better education in some prisons than you can in some schools.

Talk is cheap. Bush's talk is bankrupt.